{"id":181,"date":"2019-08-27T14:37:34","date_gmt":"2019-08-27T14:37:34","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blogs.cardiff.ac.uk\/logistics-manufacturing\/?p=181"},"modified":"2019-08-27T14:37:36","modified_gmt":"2019-08-27T14:37:36","slug":"women-in-supply-chain-interview-elizabeth-couzineau","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.cardiff.ac.uk\/logistics-manufacturing\/women-in-supply-chain-interview-elizabeth-couzineau\/","title":{"rendered":"Women in Supply Chain Interview: Elizabeth Couzineau"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

With over 20 years\u2019 experience as a consultant in supply chain, Elizabeth Couzineau now works as a Lecturer in Innovation at <\/strong>P\u00f4le Paris Alternance (PPA)<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 In this interview, the second installment of our Women in Supply Chain series, Elizabeth talks to PARC\u2019s Katy Huckle about the challenges of managing your own business through a financial crisis, getting a PhD whilst taking care of twins, and how to stay grounded and keep smiling through all of it.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Katy:  Hi Elizabeth and thank you for taking part\nin our Women in Supply Chain series.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Elizabeth:  You are\nvery welcome!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: To start us off, could you tell me a little bit about yourself and your background?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Of course!  I was born\nin 1973 and I grew up near Lyon, in France. I consider myself lucky because,\nalthough the French are not generally known for foreign languages, my mother\nsent me to an English school as a child \u2013 so I already developed some insight\nand interest into other cultures. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: What were you like at school?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I went to a regular school \u2013 nothing fancy.  I loved literature and languages, but in\nFrance it\u2019s much better to take science-based (STEM) courses through to the\nbaccalaureate, so I studied mathematics. \nA scientific baccalaureate opens lots of doors for university studies.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

With literature and mathematics, I automatically qualified\nfor undergraduate studies in business.  I\nleft university with a double Masters; one in Energy, Sustainable Economics and\nPolicy, the other in Econometrics.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

To be honest, after that, I\u2019m still not too convinced about\ndata modelling!  At the end of my Masters\n(in 1996) I was making energy forecasts for 2040 \u2013 what\u2019s the point?!  It\u2019s absolutely an exercise in intellectual\npleasure (which has value in itself) but it definitely cannot generate correct\nanswers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: Where did you post-university career take you? Have you always worked in supply chain?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

After the Masters, I started to work for the French\ngovernment as a contractor in EU projects related to \u2018alternative energy\nvehicles\u2019; aka, electric vehicles.  So\nyes, this was linked to supply chain. To be honest, in the twenty years since I\nstarted to work on this topic, not much has really changed \u2013 they are still reinventing\nthe same wheel! <\/p>\n\n\n\n

From 1996 to 2004, I was in the French transport ministry\nworking on various EU projects.  After\nthat I became a technical manager for an urban and smart delivery consultancy.  Our major customers were governments who were\ninterested in national regulation of new technologies.  They would usually come to us and ask \u201cwhat\nis the future?\u201d \u2013 it was usually the same question!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: And you enjoyed life as a consultant?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The contract was extremely interesting \u2013 I had the chance to\nwork on last mile delivery, based on mobility in the city, which actually came\ndown to goods delivery.  People mobility\nin cities is actually useless without goods mobility; a city can\u2019t survive\nwithout goods.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

On a personal level though, that time was hell for me.  Unfortunately, my boss (the owner), was\nconstantly criticising me on a very personal level. It got worse and worse over\ntime and really destroyed a lot of my confidence.  In the end it was my GP who \u2018diagnosed\u2019\nharassment after talking things through. We eventually went to court and it was\na very difficult time for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Fortunately that was the only difficult experience in my\ncareer with male colleagues. I could no longer work for that company for\nobvious reasons \u2013 and I had been considering going independent for a while.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: So you started your own company?\u00a0How was that?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

After everything was resolved I started my own consultancy with\na focus on mobility and alternative fuels. \nThese had become my regular topics at that point, so I knew my way\naround them.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I managed the company alone for five years. Everything was\ngreat – until 2008 and the arrival of the financial crisis.  This made it a lot more difficult to\noperate.  I had already made contact with\nanother consultancy company; they were 20 years old and dedicated to strategy\nand senior consulting, mainly in energy industry.  The CEO was much more experienced than I was,\nbut we were a really good fit; so I decided to sell him my company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Things went very well and I became CEO when the previous CEO\nretired.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: What were your main activities as CEO?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

There were many more responsibilities and I started to work\non more varied, less technical subjects, developing a more strategic view.  At this point I was learning a lot and\ngrowing mentally.  The company had its\nown research centre and we had some very large energy customers (primarily oil\nand gas).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We operated in an extremely scientific manner; our main\nactivities were reading through scientific papers; I really enjoyed reading and\nwriting.  It gave me a great deal of\npleasure intellectually to read and write. \nIn the end I was advised to look into a research project of my own.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: So you were already keen on academia?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I hadn\u2019t thought about it before! No one in my family was\nparticularly academic \u2013 we didn\u2019t have any researchers.  My father was a vet and my mother was an\nexecutive in a bank; I was one of the first to have a Master\u2019s degree.  We were just regular French people! <\/p>\n\n\n\n

However, I was happy and excited to take this next step, so\nI started my PhD in Management Sciences in 2013.  The topic I chose was the legitimating\nprocess of a family group in the frame of disruptive innovation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: How was the PhD?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hard work! I received the PhD in 2017 after 4 years\u2019 of\nstudy and I gave birth to my twins during the same period. I hadn\u2019t planned it\nquite like that – the university initially told me not to worry about pregnancy\nand that I could put my PhD thesis on hold until I returned from maternity\nleave.  However, the management changed\nduring my pregnancy, and eventually I was not allowed to postpone the PhD, despite\nthe twins!  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

This was a challenge, to say the least.  My twins were born in April 2016, I lost my\nfather in February 2017, and I was awarded the PhD in December 2017.  This was one of the hardest phases of my\nlife, but I genuinely believe that what doesn\u2019t kill you makes you stronger!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: And what did you decide to do after the PhD?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I didn\u2019t really want to be in consultancy after my PhD \u2013 we\nsaw quite a few changes in mentality amongst our customers following the\nfinancial crisis.  Before the crisis,\ncustomers expected high quality, in-depth studies.  After the crisis, what they wanted was more\ncommunications and fancy infographics.  I\nstarted to see it as social-media driven business to be honest, it wasn\u2019t\nin-depth research any more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Huge consultancies can sell research studies at a very low\ncost by utilising junior members of staff. \nWe went through a quotation period once where we lost out to KPMG; it is\nmuch easier for a company like that to go through the procurement process and\ndedicate resources to customer acquisition. \nFor us as a small company, we had to dedicate 2 months\u2019 worth of work\nfor one quotation, which we didn\u2019t win. \nThe entire customer relationship was changing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

By this point I realised that I really wanted to be teaching\nand doing research.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: How did you make the change from industry to academia?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In April 2018 I was contacted by a Parisian business school\n(PPA Business School). It is one of the larger business schools offering\nsandwich courses and apprenticeships in Paris, but the research element was\nstill under construction. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

The school recognised me as a consultant with a lot of\nindustry knowledge \u2013 I had over 20 years\u2019 experience in management consultancy\nat that time, in addition to my PhD.  The\nstudents at the school are in enterprise \u2013 they really spend time at companies\nas well as at school.  They need\npragmatic people to teach them, so it was quite a good fit.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Supply chain management was an obvious choice for me based\non all the subjects I\u2019ve worked on throughout my career.  There is a SCM master in the school, so I could\nwork with both the programme director and students.  I have several papers ongoing at the moment;\nand I\u2019m publishing my first book in 6 months \u2013 \u2018500 Words in Supply Chain Management\u2019\n\u2013 which will be published in French. I am now professor-researcher, and I\u2019m head\nof the SCM research program at PPA Business School.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: Describe your work personality<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m a multi-tasker.  I\nlike to work on many different topics simultaneously; my desk is a mess – I\u2019m\nnot a tidy person!  However, I\u2019m extremely\nwell organised in my head and I can process lots of information at the same\ntime.  I\u2019ve always been attracted to\nbooks, literature, languages, and I love grammar.  When you read and look at written language it\nallows a much deeper understanding of the culture behind that language.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I also like arts and I need to have very clear, precise goals.  The approach I have in my head allows me to\nmanage various topics and I can work pretty fast.  I must admit that I never follow the easy\npath; I really had to fight for what I wanted. \nIt was never easy – I didn\u2019t get much career support, possibly because I\ndidn\u2019t really think to ask for it! I just got on with things and did everything\nby myself, which is rewarding now but was hard work!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: What have you learnt in your career so far?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I can accept my failures now, I was not able to do that in\nthe past. When you have your own company, it\u2019s very hard to think about the middle\nor long term.  You are living in the\nmoment from day-to-day.  You never really\nknow how the economic situation will change, or if customers will move, or\nanything else that could disrupt your business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

As a professional researcher, I\u2019m an employee now \u2013 teaching\nstudents is rewarding most of the time; although can be more challenging with\nsome of the younger students, which can get frustrating, but overall I love\nteaching and working with students, particularly Masters\u2019 and PhD students. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I also very much enjoy being my own master \u2013 my research is\nmy work.  I can be wrong, and I accept\nthat, but I do the best for myself and for the research, not simply because I\u2019m\npaid for it.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: What\u2019s next for you?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

My next objective is to get my HDR (habilitation \u00e0 diriger\ndes recherches).  This is only available\nin France and it awards the ability to direct other PhD Doctorates.  With the HDR, I would be authorised to manage\nPhD students.  It\u2019s the highest diploma\nin France and it\u2019s a goal for me to get it before I turn 50. The HDR requires a\ngreat deal of knowledge, particularly of your own limits and visions.  I think that\u2019s the main reason I want it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Managing the twins and PhD was tough but made easier by an\nextremely supportive mother and husband. \nThe kids are only 3 years\u2019 old now, and I want a stable future for\nthem.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Supply Chain Management bridges the gap between business\nschools and industry. And I love this so I will stick with this subject.  My goal right now is to implement more of an\nengineering culture \u2013 and to go through the teaching process with PhD\nstudents.  If I want the HDR then I will\nneed to write another thesis; to present all papers and consistency of my\nresearch.  So I still have some work to\ndo!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: What are your personal highlights from your career so far?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Despite all the changes I\u2019ve gone through in my career, my husband\nwas always near me and very accepting and supportive.  We currently are going through a period of some\nwork-uncertainty and we will deal with the outcome together. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

My career has been exhilarating.  I have a lot of highlights so far, but to be\nhonest they are a collection of small moments: \nthe first time I won contract as consultant, the first time someone said\nI did a great job, the first article I had accepted for publication.  Things like that. One that strikes my\nparticularly was during my PhD thesis when I was almost overwhelmed by the\nvolume of data I had. I was feeding my son and was just struck by a new idea on\nemergence \u2013 it came out of nowhere \u2013 that was a great moment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Getting my PhD was a huge moment for me after everything I went\nthrough with the twins and with my father. \nWhen the assessor told me that I\u2019d done an amazing job \u2013 that was an\nemotional moment.  It really meant a lot.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I cherish those memories. \nI don\u2019t really feel an overall sense of achievement per se; for me,\nthere is a series of simple moments where I knew I succeeded in something.  This knowledge can come from recognition from\nanother or little victories when you do research.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: This series is dedicated to Women in Supply Chain; do you have any specific comments or messages on that?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Gender equality is currently a very passionate subject for\nmany of us, but I sometimes have the feeling that the fight is not the correct\none. Blaming men for all the professional issues we have as women is sometimes\nthe easy way. I\u2019ve always been in industry and working with men.  You will find assholes everywhere; at home,\nin industry, anywhere.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sometimes blaming men for failure to progress isn\u2019t the\nright approach.  I\u2019m just speaking from\nmy own experience and my own culture here; I know France, and this only applies\nin France.  Here you might have to fight\na bit more to achieve your goals, but it doesn\u2019t help to fight against anyone,\nor against men; you just need to be good at what you do and focus on fighting\nto improve yourself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think the most important thing to remember is that if you\nare very good at something, it will be recognised. I think that everyone should\nfight for themselves, for their own goals, for what they want to achieve.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

K: What are you fighting for?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I never really sought recognition or praise in the eyes of\nothers.  Whatever I achieve is just for\nme and those I love.  I don\u2019t do anything\nto win recognition from others – only from myself and my family.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m a definite believer that everyone should do what they\nwant to do, without judgement! I really hate stereotypes and our society seems\nto be full of stereotypes.  Everything is\ncategorised and put in to a box.  It\u2019s\nnot easy to get out of that mindset.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m old enough now to be open and relaxed.  If someone has a problem with me, that\u2019s not\nmy problem!  Obviously things can get more\ndifficult in professional areas.  But my\nadvice to others would be not to worry \u2013 it will pass.  Most issues and problems will always\npass.  It\u2019s nothing.  Work hard and stay focused; you will get\nthere!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Elizabeth\u2019s Portfolio<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Research fields<\/p>\n\n\n\n