{"id":647,"date":"2019-06-05T10:10:26","date_gmt":"2019-06-05T10:10:26","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blogs.cardiff.ac.uk\/environmental-justice-research-unit\/?p=647"},"modified":"2019-06-05T11:16:33","modified_gmt":"2019-06-05T11:16:33","slug":"the-environmental-case-for-brexit-a-conversation-with-professor-ben-pontin-on-his-new-book","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.cardiff.ac.uk\/centre-for-environmental-justice\/the-environmental-case-for-brexit-a-conversation-with-professor-ben-pontin-on-his-new-book\/","title":{"rendered":"The Environmental Case for Brexit: A conversation with Professor Ben Pontin on his new book"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

In April, Ben\u2019s book-length contribution to the environment and Brexit debate was published with Hart Publishing, \u201cThe Environmental Case for Brexit: A Socio-Legal Perspective<\/a>.<\/em>\u201d Many academics who work in environmental law and politics are deeply concerned by the consequences that Brexit may have on environmental standards in the UK, including many EJRU members. I therefore wanted to have a chat with Ben about what inspired him to write his book and to provide a positive perspective on the UK\u2019s exit from the EU.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hannah: Can you tell us about yourself and your core interests in environmental law?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ben: I have a long standing\ninterest in the environment! From the earliest age, me and my sister grew up by\na stream in the Chew Valley, and I was engrossed by the local wildlife – birds,\ninsects and, most of all, fish. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Like many children of the 1960s, so\nmuch of my daily activity was about making things out of discarded materials. Improvised\nobjects constructed from egg cartons and toilet rolls etc, dens made of\ncardboard boxes and, best of all, go-karts built from planks of wood and dumped\nold prams. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Politics relating to the\nenvironment were a big part of this upbringing. My parents\u2019 were \u2018Radical\nEnvironmentalists\u2019. They started an \u2018Urban Free School\u2019 on a disused site in Durdham\nPark, central Bristol. It was a city farm allied to an academic curriculum. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I did not get into the legal side\nof environmental conservation until reading for an LLM at UCL. That was in\n1991. We studied the Environmental Protection Act 1990 and the Wildlife and\nCountryside Act 1981, together with significant international developments\n(notably the Convention on Trade in Endangered Species). We studied comparative\nenvironmental law, focusing mainly on UK and US comparison, and I took a module\non EC Environmental Law. This was when the Community\u2019s objectives remained that\nof continuous expansion economically, under the Treaty of Rome. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hannah: Did this education shape your view of the European Union in relation to the environment?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ben: I think the core message of\nthis education was that the EC\/EU was a relatively new actor on a global environmental\nstage, alongside more established leading national actors, and international\nones.\n But whilst this seemed a very exciting\ntime for the EC\/EU, with Carlo Ripa di Meana using his role as head of the\nEnvironment Directorate of the Commission to push for law reform on an\ninternational as well as Community level, this appeared perhaps to coincide with,\nrather than lead, a period of renewed national and international vigour. For\nexample, Britain had just published its first nationwide environmental policy\nsince the early 1970s, called This Common Inheritance (the Environment White\nPaper of 1990). The policy began with a quote from John Stuart Mill about the\nfirst duty of any government being to protect the environment, thus setting out\na vision for national governmental and inter-governmental policy and law in\nwhich the EC did not necessarily have that clear a role. For example, was the\nEC a \u2018government\u2019 or trade bloc? Of course, this had a different answer\ndepending on who you asked, but for the purposes of the Environment White\nPaper, I did not see it as providing a clear policy basis for Community\ncompetence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hannah: Why did you decide to\nwrite a book on Brexit and the Environment?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ben: I wanted to try to come to\nterms with the 2016 Referendum result, which surprised me. I voted Remain in\nthe 2016 Referendum, but more out of a wariness of radical change than a sense\nof deep satisfaction with the status quo. What would a positive case for\nleaving the EU look like? The book is an attempt at answering that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hannah: Many academics are quite\nstrongly against Brexit, and particularly environmental lawyers, why do you\nthink that there is an environmental case for Brexit?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ben: I agree with everyone that\nleaving the EU represents an enormous change, and that there are risks. I see\nconsiderable opportunities and am optimistic. One of the main sources of\noptimism comes from devolution, involving not only Wales, Scotland and Northern\nIreland but England and English regions. Devolution is, as I see it, inspired\nby a form of nationalism. Also, the significant extent to which the environment\nhas been part of devolved competences is telling of the potential for a\nmutually reinforcing connection between nationhood, neighbourhood and\nenvironmental protection.   <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hannah: What did you hope to\nbring to the debate on Brexit and the environment? Do you think that you have\nachieved this through your book?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I hoped to re-introduce the idea\nof a \u2018British way of environmental protection\u2019, which I argue in the book first\ncame to prominence in the post-war era leading up to membership of the EEC. The\n\u2018British way\u2019 is common law in both a narrow and a more general sense. It is\nnarrowly common law in the sense of reliance on case law. It is common law in a\nmore general or loose sense in that it represents a bottom up, experiential\ndevelopment of policy and law, incrementally, where principles have a role, but\nnot quite in the same dispositive way or style as some jurisdictions elsewhere.\nCommon law here can also connect with a wider international common (customary)\nlaw.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hannah: Were you worried about\nhow your book would be received by colleagues and other academics?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ben: Very worried. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hannah: Have you received any\nnegative comments or attention on your book?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ben: Yes. The best assessed essay\nfor Environmental Law and Justice this year was a blistering and eloquent\ncritique of proofs of the book. The students were asked: Is Brexit a Net Risk\nfor the Environment? Most considered it was, and the student whose argument was\nmost persuasive focused on weaknesses in the \u2018British way\u2019 argument. The crux\nof the critique was that it was excessively romantic. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hannah: Despite the criticism you\u2019ve\nreceived, are you happy with the final book or is there more to be said?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ben: I am happy with the book. Although it took less than a year to write, it changed greatly, undergoing two major revisions. I think it changed for the better, and I think I have taken on board the comments of scholars who would describe themselves as strongly on the remain side of the debate. Val Fogleman is one of them, whilst I am also indebted to Nigel Haigh. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hannah: And in terms of Brexit,\nwhat do you think would be the best outcome for the environment?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I am confident that the UK courts\nwill make good use of the space opened up by leaving the EU jurisdiction, and\nalso confident that the public will place pressure on governments to be as\ngreen as practicable. The uncertainties are mainly international, including the\nuncertain role that the United Kingdom can play alongside China, India, the US\nand Arab nations in particular. Will it have clout? I hope so, but am unsure. I\nam a little worried by attempts to replicate EU governance structures, which\ncurrently find expression above all in the Office of Environmental Protection. I\nam doubtful that the money is well spent on new jobs in new institutions,\nrather than giving adequate resources to over-stretched existing ones, whose\nroots lie in the period before EU membership. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

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